8+ [Guide] Best Place to Buy Used Car Reddit 2024


8+ [Guide] Best Place to Buy Used Car Reddit 2024

The phrase identifies on-line discussions, particularly on the Reddit platform, that intention to find out essentially the most advantageous venues or strategies for buying pre-owned cars. These discussions combination consumer experiences and opinions relating to totally different dealerships, non-public sellers, public sale websites, and on-line marketplaces specializing in the sale of used autos. For instance, a consumer would possibly provoke a thread asking, “What’s the greatest strategy to discovering a dependable used automotive, in line with Reddit customers?”.

The worth lies within the crowdsourced knowledge provided by a big group of people who’ve personally navigated the used automotive market. This collective expertise can present potential consumers with beneficial insights relating to pricing, frequent mechanical points related to particular fashions, seller reputations, and negotiation methods. Traditionally, potential consumers relied closely on knowledgeable critiques and native ads; nevertheless, the appearance of on-line boards has facilitated a extra democratic and clear trade of knowledge, empowering customers to make extra knowledgeable choices.

Consequently, the knowledge discovered inside these digital discussions usually influences a purchaser’s selection of the place to start their search, which manufacturers or fashions to prioritize, and what potential pitfalls to keep away from. The next sections will delve deeper into the frequent themes and beneficial sources that continuously floor inside these on-line conversations.

1. Native Dealership Status

The connection between native dealership fame and on-line discussions relating to the optimum location for buying used automobiles is important. On-line platforms, equivalent to Reddit, function public boards the place customers share experiences, each optimistic and unfavorable, with native dealerships. A dealerships fame, as perceived and reported by earlier clients, immediately influences its consideration as a doubtlessly advantageous place to amass a pre-owned car. Due to this fact, analyzing these on-line discussions gives insights into shopper sentiment and the reliability of a given dealership.

For instance, if a number of customers recount cases of misleading gross sales practices, inflated pricing, or insufficient after-sales help at a selected dealership inside a particular geographical space, this could drastically alter a potential consumers notion of its worth. Conversely, dealerships that constantly obtain optimistic suggestions, highlighting transparency, truthful pricing, and distinctive customer support, usually tend to be recognized as preferable choices within the on-line dialogue. The “greatest place to purchase used automotive reddit” usually factors on to dealerships recognized for treating clients pretty and offering dependable autos, reinforcing the influence of public fame.

In abstract, on-line boards like Reddit are vital in shaping a customers perspective on a neighborhood dealership’s trustworthiness. This fame acts as a filter, influencing whether or not a purchaser considers a particular dealership when trying to find a used automotive. Efficiently leveraging these on-line sources requires cautious evaluation of the information, discerning real suggestions from doubtlessly biased opinions, and in the end, informing a extra complete and discerning strategy to used automotive acquisition.

2. Non-public Vendor Verification

The identification of advantageous venues for buying used automobiles, as mentioned on Reddit, invariably emphasizes the essential position of personal vendor verification. This verification is a direct response to the inherent dangers related to transactions the place the vendor isn’t a regulated dealership. In contrast to established companies, non-public sellers lack the identical stage of accountability and shopper safety mechanisms, making due diligence paramount for the customer. Due to this fact, discussions pertaining to figuring out superior sources for used autos invariably deal with strategies for mitigating the dangers related to non-public gross sales.

The collective intelligence discovered on on-line boards suggests a number of frequent verification methods. These embrace acquiring a car historical past report from respected suppliers like Carfax or AutoCheck, conducting a pre-purchase inspection by a certified mechanic, and completely analyzing the car’s title for any potential points equivalent to liens or salvage historical past. Moreover, Redditors continuously advise assembly sellers in public areas, requesting identification, and evaluating the offered info with the main points on the title. Failure to carry out these verification steps considerably elevates the potential for fraud, misrepresentation, or the acquisition of a car with undisclosed mechanical issues. For instance, a purchaser who skips a pre-purchase inspection could later uncover the car requires in depth repairs, negating any preliminary financial savings achieved by a non-public sale. Due to this fact, a dialogue targeted on figuring out the optimum supply of a used car inherently underscores the necessity for complete non-public vendor verification.

In conclusion, discussions on discovering the perfect place to purchase used automobiles constantly spotlight non-public vendor verification as an indispensable part. Whereas non-public gross sales could supply aggressive pricing or entry to distinctive autos, the related dangers necessitate rigorous verification procedures. Understanding and implementing these verification methods, as generally suggested inside on-line communities, is essential for minimizing the potential for adversarial outcomes and making certain a profitable used automotive buy. The absence of satisfactory verification invariably undermines the perceived benefits of sourcing a car by a non-public vendor.

3. On-line Market Trustworthiness

The identification of superior used automotive acquisition strategies, as mentioned on Reddit, considerably hinges on the trustworthiness of on-line marketplaces. These platforms current a various array of autos from varied sources, together with dealerships and personal sellers. Nonetheless, the benefit of entry and breadth of choice are counterbalanced by the potential for fraudulent listings, misrepresented car circumstances, and unreliable vendor interactions, making platform trustworthiness a paramount consideration.

  • Platform Moderation Insurance policies

    On-line marketplaces differ considerably of their moderation insurance policies and enforcement mechanisms. Platforms with sturdy methods for verifying vendor identities, monitoring listings for inaccuracies, and addressing consumer complaints are usually thought-about extra reliable. For instance, a platform that requires sellers to offer verifiable contact info and implements a evaluate system with safeguards towards manipulation fosters a extra dependable setting than one with minimal oversight. Reddit discussions usually spotlight cases the place insufficient moderation led to scams or misrepresented autos, immediately impacting customers’ suggestions of the place to buy used automobiles.

  • Assessment and Ranking Methods

    The presence of clear and dependable evaluate and ranking methods is essential for gauging the trustworthiness of each sellers and autos on a web based market. These methods permit consumers to share their experiences, offering beneficial insights into vendor responsiveness, accuracy of descriptions, and general transaction high quality. Marketplaces that actively solicit and show unbiased critiques usually tend to be perceived as reliable. Discussions on Reddit usually reference particular marketplaces primarily based on the consensus relating to the reliability and objectivity of their evaluate methods, influencing suggestions for potential consumers.

  • Dispute Decision Mechanisms

    Reliable on-line marketplaces usually supply complete dispute decision mechanisms to handle conflicts between consumers and sellers. These mechanisms could contain mediation, arbitration, or reimbursement insurance policies in circumstances of fraud or misrepresentation. The supply of such sources gives consumers with a security web and instills confidence within the platform. Reddit customers continuously cite the effectiveness and accessibility of a market’s dispute decision course of as a key think about assessing its general trustworthiness and recommending it to others searching for used autos.

  • Knowledge Safety Protocols

    The safety measures carried out by a web based market to guard consumer information, together with monetary info and private particulars, immediately influence its trustworthiness. Platforms with sturdy encryption protocols, safe cost gateways, and clear information privateness insurance policies are seen extra favorably. Discussions on Reddit usually increase considerations about information breaches and id theft dangers related to much less safe marketplaces, cautioning customers towards sharing delicate info on platforms with questionable safety practices. Prioritizing platforms that reveal a dedication to information safety is essential for mitigating potential dangers when partaking in on-line used automotive transactions.

In conclusion, the evaluation of on-line market trustworthiness is a recurring theme in Reddit discussions relating to optimum venues for used automotive purchases. Components equivalent to platform moderation, evaluate methods, dispute decision mechanisms, and information safety protocols all contribute to the general notion of reliability. By rigorously evaluating these features, potential consumers could make extra knowledgeable choices and mitigate the dangers related to on-line used automotive transactions. Suggestions for marketplaces continuously hinge on a optimistic consensus relating to their dedication to transparency, safety, and equity.

4. Mannequin-Particular Issues

The dedication of the “greatest place to purchase used automotive reddit” is intrinsically linked to discussions surrounding model-specific issues. On-line boards function repositories of collective consumer expertise, permitting people to share info relating to frequent mechanical or electrical points related to explicit car fashions. This information turns into a vital think about assessing the potential worth and long-term value of possession for a potential buy. The identification of recurring issues can affect a consumers choice relating to which make and mannequin to pursue, and consequently, the place they select to provoke their search. For instance, if a particular mannequin is understood for transmission failures or electrical glitches, potential consumers could keep away from it altogether or search out options. This immediately impacts the perceived worth of dealerships or non-public sellers providing these problematic fashions.

Moreover, the notice of model-specific issues empowers consumers to conduct extra knowledgeable inspections and negotiations. Armed with this data, a potential purchaser can scrutinize the car extra intently for indicators of pre-existing points or ask focused questions of the vendor. This, in flip, impacts the perceived trustworthiness of a selected vendor or dealership. A vendor who brazenly acknowledges and addresses recognized points for a particular mannequin could also be seen as extra respected than one who conceals or downplays potential issues. As an example, a purchaser conscious of a fashions propensity for oil consumption can particularly inquire in regards to the car’s oil change historical past and look at the exhaust for indicators of extreme burning. Profitable navigation of the used automotive market entails understanding the potential points and proactively addressing them.

In conclusion, the worth derived from partaking in discussions relating to the “greatest place to purchase used automotive reddit” is considerably enhanced by contemplating model-specific issues. The collective data shared on these platforms permits consumers to make extra knowledgeable choices, mitigate dangers, and negotiate extra successfully. Ignoring these available sources can result in elevated upkeep prices and dissatisfaction with the acquisition. Thus, model-specific issues are an integral part of the general analysis course of. The understanding of these issues permits consumers to make buying choices armed with info that results in higher worth.

5. Truthful Pricing Benchmarks

The dedication of truthful pricing benchmarks constitutes a vital factor inside discussions aiming to establish advantageous avenues for buying pre-owned cars, notably as thought-about inside on-line boards. These benchmarks function reference factors for assessing the reasonableness of a autos asking worth, enabling potential consumers to judge totally different sellers and dealerships extra successfully.

  • Market Worth Evaluation

    Market worth evaluation entails researching the prevailing costs for comparable autos in comparable situation and with comparable mileage inside a given geographic area. Sources equivalent to Kelley Blue E book (KBB) and Edmunds present valuation instruments that take into account these components. The data present in on-line discussions usually dietary supplements these formal valuations, providing insights into localized pricing variations and real-world transaction information. Deviations from established market values necessitate cautious scrutiny, as they could point out underlying mechanical points, undisclosed accident historical past, or opportunistic pricing practices. For instance, a car priced considerably under market worth warrants a radical inspection and verification of its historical past. Conversely, autos priced considerably above market worth require justification from the vendor primarily based on distinctive situation, current repairs, or fascinating options.

  • Situation and Mileage Changes

    Truthful pricing benchmarks inherently account for the autos general situation and collected mileage. Autos in glorious situation with decrease mileage usually command larger costs than these with in depth put on and tear or larger odometer readings. On-line discussions continuously deal with the diploma to which these components ought to affect pricing choices. Customers usually share their experiences negotiating costs primarily based on recognized imperfections or extreme mileage. The consensus usually emphasizes the significance of objectively assessing the autos situation and negotiating a worth that displays any mandatory repairs or diminished worth ensuing from larger mileage. A car with a clear title however quite a few beauty imperfections could warrant a lower cost than a comparable car in pristine situation. These nuanced issues are sometimes refined by the sharing of sensible experiences inside on-line boards.

  • Vendor Charges and Negotiation

    Vendor charges signify a significant factor of the ultimate transaction worth, and their reasonableness is usually debated inside on-line discussions. Some dealerships cost exorbitant charges for documentation, processing, or different companies, successfully inflating the overall value of the car. Truthful pricing benchmarks should subsequently account for these charges and their negotiability. Customers usually share methods for minimizing or eliminating these costs, equivalent to refusing to pay for pointless add-ons or threatening to stroll away from the deal. Understanding the everyday vary of seller charges in a selected market and having the arrogance to barter them successfully is essential for reaching a good worth. Transparency in charge disclosure and willingness to barter are sometimes cited as indicators of a good dealership.

  • Financing and Curiosity Charges

    The phrases of financing can considerably influence the general value of a used car, and truthful pricing benchmarks should take into account the prevailing rates of interest and mortgage phrases. Unfavorable financing preparations can successfully negate any financial savings achieved by negotiating a decrease car worth. On-line discussions continuously advise consumers to safe pre-approval for financing from a number of sources earlier than visiting a dealership, permitting them to check rates of interest and mortgage phrases. Understanding credit score scores and their influence on rates of interest can be important for assessing the equity of financing presents. Consumers ought to rigorously scrutinize the mortgage settlement for any hidden charges or unfavorable phrases, making certain that the overall value of possession stays inside an inexpensive vary.

In conclusion, establishing truthful pricing benchmarks represents a basic side of constructing knowledgeable choices when buying a used car. Discussions facilitate the sharing of insights relating to market values, situation changes, seller charges, and financing phrases, empowering potential consumers to barter successfully and keep away from overpaying. The collective intelligence derived from these boards contributes to a extra clear and equitable used automotive market. Data of truthful pricing permits for higher choices.

6. Inspection Suggestions

Discussions in regards to the optimum location for buying pre-owned autos continuously emphasize the vital significance of pre-purchase inspection suggestions. These suggestions function a safeguard towards unexpected mechanical points and undisclosed harm, influencing choices about the place to supply a used automotive and which sellers or dealerships to belief.

  • Impartial Mechanic Utilization

    Suggestions constantly spotlight the worth of partaking an unbiased mechanic to conduct a radical inspection prior to buy. This neutral analysis gives an goal evaluation of the autos mechanical and structural situation, figuring out potential issues that will not be obvious throughout a cursory examination. For instance, an unbiased mechanic can detect hidden accident harm, worn suspension parts, or impending engine failures. This info empowers the customer to barter a lower cost or keep away from a doubtlessly problematic car altogether. The reliance on unbiased inspections is a recurring theme inside on-line boards, underscoring the significance of goal verification. The very best used automotive finds usually contain such inspections.

  • Particular Inspection Checkpoints

    Suggestions usually delineate particular checkpoints that must be included in a pre-purchase inspection. These checkpoints usually embody the engine, transmission, brakes, suspension, electrical system, and structural integrity. Moreover, the inspection ought to embrace a diagnostic scan to establish any saved error codes. A complete inspection gives an in depth overview of the autos general situation, permitting the customer to make an knowledgeable choice. The identification of particular inspection checkpoints demonstrates a proactive strategy to mitigating danger and making certain that the used car meets the consumers expectations. The standard of the inspection enormously impacts the standard of the purchase.

  • Negotiation Leverage

    Inspection findings continuously function leverage for negotiating a decrease buy worth. The identification of mechanical points or mandatory repairs gives justification for demanding a worth discount. Sellers who’re unwilling to handle or negotiate primarily based on reliable inspection findings could also be seen with suspicion. Inspection suggestions subsequently empower consumers to barter from a place of energy, making certain that they don’t seem to be overpaying for a car with undisclosed issues. The ability of negotiation is among the benefits of the service.

  • Documentation and Reporting

    Suggestions invariably emphasize the significance of acquiring a written report documenting the inspection findings. This report serves as a document of the autos situation on the time of buy and can be utilized as proof within the occasion of subsequent disputes. A complete inspection report ought to embrace an in depth description of any recognized points, together with estimated restore prices. The supply of such documentation gives consumers with added safety and recourse within the occasion of unexpected issues. Good documentation ensures transparency.

In abstract, pre-purchase inspection suggestions are a cornerstone of knowledgeable decision-making within the used automotive market. They supply a framework for assessing car situation, negotiating costs, and mitigating dangers. By adhering to those suggestions, consumers can improve their possibilities of buying a dependable and problem-free used car. The effectiveness of these actions impacts the perfect place to purchase used automotive.

7. Guarantee Choices Explored

The examination of guarantee choices constitutes a pivotal think about deliberations about procuring used autos, notably inside on-line discussions aimed toward pinpointing advantageous acquisition areas. The supply, scope, and price of guarantee protection immediately influence the perceived worth and long-term possession bills related to a pre-owned car. Discussions usually assess the trade-offs between buying from dealerships that supply licensed pre-owned (CPO) applications with prolonged warranties versus non-public sellers or smaller dealerships missing such choices. For instance, a CPO car could command the next preliminary worth, however the included guarantee can mitigate the danger of pricey repairs throughout the protection interval. Conversely, a car bought from a non-public vendor could also be cheaper upfront, however the absence of guarantee safety locations the onus of duty for all repairs on the customer.

On-line boards continuously discover the nuances of various guarantee varieties, together with producer warranties, prolonged warranties, and aftermarket warranties. The scope of protection, deductibles, exclusions, and declare procedures are vital issues. Customers usually share their experiences with particular guarantee suppliers, highlighting cases of profitable claims or irritating denials. This collective suggestions informs potential consumers in regards to the real-world effectiveness of various guarantee choices. The credibility and responsiveness of the guarantee supplier are sometimes deemed as essential because the protection itself. A guaranty is barely as beneficial because the supplier’s willingness to honor it. In discussions, the analysis of potential sellers extends past the car itself, incorporating a radical evaluation of the proposed guarantee and the supplier’s fame.

In abstract, the examination of guarantee choices is an integral part of knowledgeable decision-making within the used automotive market. Discussions relating to the “greatest place to purchase used automotive reddit” invariably deal with the provision, scope, and price of guarantee protection, recognizing their influence on long-term possession bills and peace of thoughts. By rigorously evaluating guarantee choices and contemplating the experiences of different consumers, potential purchasers can mitigate dangers and make extra assured choices. Finally, the choice relating to the place to buy used automobiles ought to embrace cautious examination of the choices obtainable for guarantee. That is for monetary safety.

8. Negotiation Methods Shared

The identification of optimum venues for used automotive acquisitions, as mentioned inside on-line boards, is intrinsically linked to the dissemination of efficient negotiation methods. These shared techniques empower potential consumers to safe extra favorable transaction phrases, mitigating the knowledge asymmetry that always exists between consumers and sellers.

  • Info Asymmetry Mitigation

    Efficient negotiation usually hinges on decreasing the informational benefit held by the vendor. Shared methods embrace conducting thorough market analysis to determine truthful pricing benchmarks, figuring out model-specific defects to justify worth reductions, and scrutinizing car historical past experiences for potential purple flags. For instance, a purchaser armed with data of a car’s accident historical past or a recurring mechanical drawback is best positioned to barter a lower cost. Such info empowers the customer, leveling the enjoying area and resulting in extra equitable transaction phrases. Boards are helpful for locating asymmetry.

  • Stroll-Away Energy Projection

    The willingness to stroll away from a deal serves as a potent negotiation device. Shared methods emphasize the significance of creating a most acceptable worth and adhering to it, whatever the vendor’s strain techniques. By demonstrating a willingness to discover various choices, the customer indicators an absence of desperation, thereby influencing the vendor’s willingness to compromise. For instance, a purchaser who expresses curiosity in a number of autos at totally different dealerships can credibly threaten to take their enterprise elsewhere, forcing sellers to supply extra aggressive pricing. The worth is proven once they can stroll away.

  • Payment Deconstruction and Omission

    Negotiation methods usually goal ancillary charges that dealerships generally add to the car’s base worth. Shared techniques embrace difficult the legitimacy of documentation charges, promoting charges, or different add-on costs. Consumers are sometimes inspired to barter the overall out-the-door worth, encompassing all charges and taxes, somewhat than focusing solely on the car’s sticker worth. Profitable charge deconstruction can lead to substantial financial savings, successfully reducing the general value of the used automotive. These methods improve worth.

  • Strategic Timing and Communication

    The timing and method of communication can considerably influence negotiation outcomes. Shared methods counsel scheduling negotiations in the direction of the tip of the month or quarter, when dealerships could also be extra motivated to fulfill gross sales quotas. Moreover, sustaining a peaceful {and professional} demeanor, avoiding emotional arguments, and specializing in goal information can improve the customer’s credibility and persuasiveness. The method of negotiations is the aim.

In abstract, the sharing of efficient negotiation methods is a central theme inside discussions targeted on figuring out optimum used automotive acquisition venues. These techniques empower consumers to mitigate info asymmetry, challenge walk-away energy, deconstruct charges, and make use of strategic communication, in the end resulting in extra favorable transaction phrases. The appliance of those methods can considerably affect the perceived worth and general satisfaction related to the used automotive buy, making it a vital think about figuring out the “greatest place to purchase used automotive reddit”. This discussion board is a big asset.

Often Requested Questions

This part addresses frequent inquiries relating to the identification of advantageous venues for buying pre-owned cars, drawing upon insights continuously shared inside on-line discussions.

Query 1: Are on-line discussions a dependable supply of knowledge for figuring out optimum used automotive shopping for areas?

On-line discussions can supply beneficial views because of the aggregation of consumer experiences. Nonetheless, info must be evaluated critically, contemplating potential biases and variations in particular person circumstances. Cross-referencing info with different sources is beneficial.

Query 2: How can the danger related to buying from a non-public vendor be minimized?

Mitigation methods embrace acquiring a car historical past report, conducting a pre-purchase inspection by a certified mechanic, completely analyzing the car title, and assembly sellers in public areas. Verifying the vendor’s id can be essential.

Query 3: What components contribute to the trustworthiness of a web based market for used automobiles?

Trustworthiness is influenced by platform moderation insurance policies, the reliability of evaluate methods, the provision of dispute decision mechanisms, and the implementation of strong information safety protocols. Transparency and accountability are key indicators.

Query 4: How does consciousness of model-specific issues affect the number of a used automotive?

Data of frequent mechanical or electrical points related to explicit fashions permits consumers to conduct extra knowledgeable inspections, negotiate extra successfully, and assess the potential long-term value of possession. Such data can information car choice.

Query 5: What constitutes a good pricing benchmark for a used automotive?

Truthful pricing benchmarks are primarily based on market worth assessments, situation and mileage changes, seller charges, and financing phrases. Researching comparable autos and negotiating charges are important for reaching an inexpensive worth.

Query 6: Why is a pre-purchase inspection beneficial, and what ought to it entail?

A pre-purchase inspection carried out by an unbiased mechanic gives an goal evaluation of the car’s situation, figuring out potential issues and informing negotiation methods. The inspection ought to embody the engine, transmission, brakes, suspension, electrical system, and structural integrity.

In conclusion, navigating the used automotive market requires diligence, analysis, and demanding analysis of obtainable info. The methods outlined above can help in making extra knowledgeable choices and minimizing dangers.

The next part will discover rising developments within the used automotive market and their influence on acquisition methods.

Navigating the Used Automotive Market

This part gives sensible steering derived from seasoned members in on-line used automotive discussions. Making use of the following tips can optimize the shopping for course of and mitigate potential dangers.

Tip 1: Leverage On-line Valuation Instruments: Make the most of sources equivalent to Kelley Blue E book (KBB) and Edmunds to determine the prevailing market worth for the goal car. Make use of this info as a baseline throughout negotiations.

Tip 2: Prioritize Pre-Buy Inspections: Have interaction a certified, unbiased mechanic to conduct a complete inspection earlier than finalizing the acquisition. Deal with any recognized points with the vendor to barter repairs or a worth discount.

Tip 3: Scrutinize Car Historical past Reviews: Get hold of an in depth car historical past report from a good supplier to establish potential purple flags equivalent to accidents, title points, or odometer discrepancies. Confirm the accuracy of the reported info.

Tip 4: Negotiate the Out-the-Door Value: Deal with the overall worth, encompassing all charges and taxes, somewhat than solely the car’s sticker worth. Inquire about all potential charges upfront and try to barter their discount or elimination.

Tip 5: Safe Pre-Permitted Financing: Get hold of pre-approval for financing from a number of sources previous to visiting dealerships. This enables for comparability of rates of interest and mortgage phrases, enhancing negotiating energy.

Tip 6: Undertaking Stroll-Away Energy: Set up a most acceptable worth and be ready to stroll away from the deal if the vendor is unwilling to fulfill the phrases. This demonstrates an absence of desperation and sometimes motivates concessions.

Tip 7: Doc All Communication: Preserve a written document of all communications with the vendor, together with e-mail correspondence and telephone conversations. This documentation can function proof within the occasion of disputes.

These tips intention to equip potential consumers with the data and techniques essential to navigate the used automotive market successfully and securely.

The next part summarizes the important thing takeaways and reiterates the significance of knowledgeable decision-making in used automotive acquisition.

Conclusion

The exploration of “greatest place to purchase used automotive reddit” reveals a fancy panorama whereby potential consumers search crowdsourced knowledge to navigate the used car market. The discussions spotlight the significance of due diligence, together with non-public vendor verification, unbiased inspections, and thorough analysis of guarantee choices. Moreover, the shared negotiation methods and insights into model-specific issues empower customers to make extra knowledgeable choices.

Finally, the success of any used automotive acquisition hinges on the customer’s dedication to rigorous analysis and demanding evaluation. The data gleaned from on-line boards, whereas beneficial, ought to function a complement to, not a alternative for, skilled recommendation and unbiased verification. The long run purchaser must be critical about that and the automotive market.